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Poster: donuil Date: Feb 1, 2009 9:23am
Forum: texts Subject: Google Books 'Guidelines' Change

Did anyone chance to see this?

From the blog of the founder of PublicDomainReprints.org: Link

This post was modified by donuil on 2009-02-01 17:23:24

This post was modified by donuil on 2009-02-01 17:23:47

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Poster: Jim Carlile Date: Feb 28, 2009 10:39pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Google Books 'Guidelines' Change

Just noticed this post.

It seems Google is getting a little nervous about people distributing their downloads. My theory is:

-- that they'll soon be charging for all PD downloading. Their library agreements require them to make every PD scan available for viewing, but not downloading. That's entirely discretionary on their part.

-- as pretext for a 'crackdown,' they'll soon claim that they now 'must' restrict downloads because of users 'abusing' the privilege or whatever.

These are just predictions, but I'd be very surprised if they don't come true within a year or two. When they finally identify all of the post-1922 PD works in their corpus (as required by the Agreement) there's no way in the world that they'll want to keep giving them out for free.

It's obvious that Google's plan has always been for the PD corpus to be pay-on-demand for downloads-- just like their original business model was always to be able to charge for in-copyright OOP works. This theory was confirmed by the recent publishers agreement, but it could easily have been figured out just by reading the original consortium library agreements. They wanted access to these materials so they could sell them.

None of this was charitable do-gooding on the part of Google, despite their repeated claims of good will and intellectual philanthropy, the 'world's library' and all that crap. So get ready for the end of free PD downloads over there-- it's inevitable.

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Poster: stbalbach Date: Apr 15, 2009 9:20pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Google Books 'Guidelines' Change


You may be right about your theory that GB will begin to lock up access to PD works.

Here's an example PD book on Google that was once "Full access" and now "Snippet only" mode:

The American Historical Review, 1920

Luckily, there is a copy on IA:

I happened on this by accident since I linked to it from a Wikipedia article, than later discovered the link no longer worked after Google changed it to Snippet only. If they do this on a larger scale it will break not only Wikipedia but everything that links directly to GB. Obviously it's not a good idea to link to Google Books because it can't be trusted to work, which is ironic, given how their linking algorithm works!

This post was modified by stbalbach on 2009-04-16 04:20:19

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Poster: Jim Carlile Date: Apr 15, 2009 10:48pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Google Books 'Guidelines' Change

Yes, that's interesting. Google is scanning loads of journals too, and my 'suspicions' are that they are going to set up a for-profit alternative to JSTOR. The subject of journals and magazines is conspicuously absent from the Agreement-- they refer to them by another generic term, I can't remeber what it was-- yet they are scanning the most obscure of magazines, like house organs from Kodak, etc. that nobody has, from Eastman and other archives.

When I read things from around the Web, I'm amazed at the lack of understanding that even many academic librarians have about this Agreement. Contrary to what so many have been posting, there is nothing about free downloads of PD materials. The controlling language for PD is in the individual agreements with the participating libraries, where the only condition imposed upon Google is view-only.

In the case of some journals, the host archives may not be imposing this open requirement, which is why Google is now restricting the viewing of some PD materials (?) It might be worth checking into.

I've gotten a lot of flack on other sites about why I'm criticizing Google, and I agree, access to these materials is great. But Google has never been in this for the altruism, which is how they sold the host libraries on allowing them to into their books for free.

A quick glance at any of the host agreements with the college libraries-- liberated only by lawsuits from Google Watch and others-- revealed just what was going on with them and their Book program, and this was confirmed by the Agreement itself when it came out.

My pet peeve about all of this-- and apparently, the judge has some questions about it, too-- is just what the host libraries are getting out of the deal?

They give Google all of their books for free, and in return they are given scans that they effectively cannot use for anything. If they want access to the corpus, they have to subscribe just like everyone else! This means that Google is requiring them to buy back their own copyrighted books, if anyone wants to actually use them on or off the campus.

Incidentally, the Agreement requires Google to identify all of the PD works they have scanned, and soon. That includes post-1922 works that were never renewed. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they do, and what kind of access is allowed to them.

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Poster: garthus Date: Feb 1, 2009 7:37pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Google Books 'Guidelines' Change

I run into this shit all the time when Libraries are involved in digitization projects. They rush to put copyrights on the digitization products of public domain works thinking that somehow this will give them control (and $) over this material.

I say **** all of them. I for one will continue scanning as much public domain materials as I can and place them under a creative commons license on the internet archive. If we have to, then rescan all of the Google stuff, or process the files and remove all forensic evidence of any digital rights. Once this happens maybe they will realize that there is not big bucks in doing this stuff. I think that the IA is growing fast enough that eventually we can co-opt OCLC and Google by having the best archive available if we continue working at it. Nothing suprises me with all of that human scum out there trying to make a buck by controlling information and outright ripping of everyone else. You would think that everyone out there should have been sickened by the US financial crisis, but I think many are just wishing that it was they who did the stealing.

I do not know what to say about this Google activity, other than that it does not suprise me in the least.


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Poster: garthus Date: Feb 1, 2009 7:48pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Google Books 'Guidelines' Change

Legally, if it applies at all, these changes can only apply to books which appeared on Google after they uttered these new proclamations.


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Poster: rita1075 Date: Feb 14, 2009 6:53am
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Google Books 'Guidelines' Change

This is the first message I post here, but I have been a regular visitor and wanderer to this site for some time.
As the Google books guidelines thing, well, I am angry beyond words.
I am a blind girl, and the only way I can read good public domain books is to download them from Project Gutenberg as they become available. I think Project Gutenberg uses many book scanns hosted here at Internet Archive and until recently, they used to take scans of public domain books from Google, proofread them and release the plain text versions of those books to their catalog.
My eyes are swollen from crying now. What if no Google public domain scans can be added?
Maybe I am whining here pointlessly, but it is so sad and depressing whenever I see those megacorporations trying to control our freedom to read and enjoy our heritage.

This post was modified by rita1075 on 2009-02-14 14:53:22

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Poster: garthus Date: Feb 14, 2009 5:40am
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Google Books 'Guidelines' Change


While the Google actions shine the spotlight on the corruption of Capitalism here in the United States, they will never succeed since there are now many people involved in adding materials into collections such as Project Gutenberg and the Internet Archive under the Creative Commons license. Once our collections get large enough, it will be interesting to see what they say when they are forced to comply with the Creative Commons Copyright when they try to place restrictive copyrights on public domain material which we have already created.

Most of us are aware of the fact that there are many people all over the world wo are depending and will be depending on the free and easy access to these materials. The scum running governments and sitting in control of many large corporations do not understand this since they are too blinded by greed and sloth.

However it is necessary for people like you to put pressure on your political leaders and tell them that you do not expect them to go along with this Greed and the control of information which should be freely available to all peoples.


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Poster: rita1075 Date: Feb 14, 2009 7:20am
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Google Books 'Guidelines' Change

Hello, garthus,
Thank you for your heartwarming words. It is my sincere hope to tell all the volunteers at PG and Internet Archive that you helped me discovering wonderful classics through the ebooks you scan, proofread and release as easy-to-read ebook files.
I attended a university in Seoul, South Korea, and I used to scan my printed textbooks for several hours before a new semester began. Braille is the only reading and writing method I use, and in order to transcribe printed books in to braille, I must scan the whole book first, do the OCR and proofread it.
I didn't know how hard it is to create an ebook until I did the whole process by myself few years ago to prepare my textbooks in braille. I would like to express my heartfelt thanks to all volunteers at PG and IA who help creating new ebooks everyday.
It brought me the joy of reading and broadened my knowledge.
I think people like you makes our cyberspace such a beautiful place.
Thank you.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Feb 14, 2009 9:09pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Google Books 'Guidelines' Change


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